Copy hst:page in hst-config-editor

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Copy hst:page in hst-config-editor

Minos Chatzidakis-2
Hi to all,

I have a number of hst:pages that I would like to use as prototypes for creating new hst:pages. The prototypes specify a number of container components, or a number of columns with containers (2-column page, 3-column page etc).
So I would like to use these pages in order to create new ones. No component is dropped via the template composer in the prototype pages, nor are these pages used by the sitemap. The scenario is that when the content editor needs a 2-column page for example, he copies the 2-column prototype page, renames it, maps it to his sitemap item and then configures it by dropping components inside.

I can use the cms console to copy the hst:page to a new one and rename it. But the hst config editor does not provide a copy option, so this is only feasible via the cms console.

How hard is it to add the copy functionality to the config editor?

Thanks
--
With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
Minos Chatzidakis

Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com


_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
Ard
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Re: Copy hst:page in hst-config-editor

Ard
Hello Minos,

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Minos Chatzidakis
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi to all,
>
> I have a number of hst:pages that I would like to use as prototypes for
> creating new hst:pages. The prototypes specify a number of container
> components, or a number of columns with containers (2-column page, 3-column
> page etc).
> So I would like to use these pages in order to create new ones. No component
> is dropped via the template composer in the prototype pages, nor are these
> pages used by the sitemap. The scenario is that when the content editor
> needs a 2-column page for example, he copies the 2-column prototype page,
> renames it, maps it to his sitemap item and then configures it by dropping
> components inside.

I really like the idea! We should have some 'hst:page templates'
location. We could add this in hst:pages by some convention component,
for example:

hst:pages
    - standard
    - homepage
    - newsoverview
    - _pagetemplateholder
            - threecolmn
            - twocolumn
            - ... etc


>
> I can use the cms console to copy the hst:page to a new one and rename it.
> But the hst config editor does not provide a copy option, so this is only
> feasible via the cms console.
>
> How hard is it to add the copy functionality to the config editor?

Well, I hope we can phase out the config editor and move all features
to the templace composer enviroment. For example, I'd like to add menu
items directly in the site, not in the config editor.

An extra functionality could thus be:

1) Copy a page template definition.
2) Assume you call the new page def 'mynewpage' . Then, we need to be
able to create a url matcher that has as comp id : hst:pages/mynewpage

Either way, really like your idea about page template definitions

Regards Ard

>
> Thanks
> --
> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
> Minos Chatzidakis
>
> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>
> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
> www.onehippo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
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Re: Copy hst:page in hst-config-editor

Arje Cahn
Administrator
Minos,

Great idea. If it works from the console, then we'll add the controls to manipulate these things from within the Channel Manager (I'll add it to the roadmap).

About the naming: the term "hst:page" has historically been pretty confusing in itself. Beginning Hippo developers think that they refer to WEBpages, but they are not. Slapping another level of "template" on top of "page" (a template for an hst:page that, when instantiated, refers to an hst:template) sounds horribly confusing.


On Jun 21, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Ard Schrijvers wrote:

> Hello Minos,
>
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Minos Chatzidakis
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi to all,
>>
>> I have a number of hst:pages that I would like to use as prototypes for
>> creating new hst:pages. The prototypes specify a number of container
>> components, or a number of columns with containers (2-column page, 3-column
>> page etc).
>> So I would like to use these pages in order to create new ones. No component
>> is dropped via the template composer in the prototype pages, nor are these
>> pages used by the sitemap. The scenario is that when the content editor
>> needs a 2-column page for example, he copies the 2-column prototype page,
>> renames it, maps it to his sitemap item and then configures it by dropping
>> components inside.
>
> I really like the idea! We should have some 'hst:page templates'
> location. We could add this in hst:pages by some convention component,
> for example:
>
> hst:pages
>    - standard
>    - homepage
>    - newsoverview
>    - _pagetemplateholder
>            - threecolmn
>            - twocolumn
>            - ... etc
>
>
>>
>> I can use the cms console to copy the hst:page to a new one and rename it.
>> But the hst config editor does not provide a copy option, so this is only
>> feasible via the cms console.
>>
>> How hard is it to add the copy functionality to the config editor?
>
> Well, I hope we can phase out the config editor and move all features
> to the templace composer enviroment. For example, I'd like to add menu
> items directly in the site, not in the config editor.
>
> An extra functionality could thus be:
>
> 1) Copy a page template definition.
> 2) Assume you call the new page def 'mynewpage' . Then, we need to be
> able to create a url matcher that has as comp id : hst:pages/mynewpage
>
> Either way, really like your idea about page template definitions
>
> Regards Ard
>
>>
>> Thanks
>> --
>> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> Minos Chatzidakis
>>
>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>
>> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>
>
>
> --
> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>
> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
> www.onehippo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html

Regards,

Arjé Cahn

CTO, Hippo
[hidden email] / [hidden email]
twitter.com/#!/arjecahn

Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com

_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
Ard
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Re: Copy hst:page in hst-config-editor

Ard
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Arje Cahn <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Minos,
>
> Great idea. If it works from the console, then we'll add the controls to manipulate these things from within the Channel Manager (I'll add it to the roadmap).

One more note about it. To avoid a catch-22 I think the story should be:

-In the template composer, you should be able to add a new URL
pattern, like /agendaoverview/**
-Obviously,the ** matcher needs a 'componentconfigurationid' : You can
pick an existing component below hst:pages OR create a new hst:page by
picking from some 'pagetemplatedefinition's (This is the thing Minos
pointed out)

If you don't start with the new URL, then how to 'see' the newly
create hst:page from a definition?

Along with this functionality, it should also be straightforward to
change the pagedefinition for existing URL patterns

>
> About the naming: the term "hst:page" has historically been pretty confusing in itself. Beginning Hippo developers think that they refer to WEBpages, but they are not. Slapping another level of "template" on top of "page" (a template for an hst:page that, when instantiated, refers to an hst:template) sounds horribly confusing.

'pagedefinition' and 'pagetemplatedefinition' would most likely be a better name

Regards Ard

>
>
> On Jun 21, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Ard Schrijvers wrote:
>
>> Hello Minos,
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Minos Chatzidakis
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi to all,
>>>
>>> I have a number of hst:pages that I would like to use as prototypes for
>>> creating new hst:pages. The prototypes specify a number of container
>>> components, or a number of columns with containers (2-column page, 3-column
>>> page etc).
>>> So I would like to use these pages in order to create new ones. No component
>>> is dropped via the template composer in the prototype pages, nor are these
>>> pages used by the sitemap. The scenario is that when the content editor
>>> needs a 2-column page for example, he copies the 2-column prototype page,
>>> renames it, maps it to his sitemap item and then configures it by dropping
>>> components inside.
>>
>> I really like the idea! We should have some 'hst:page templates'
>> location. We could add this in hst:pages by some convention component,
>> for example:
>>
>> hst:pages
>>    - standard
>>    - homepage
>>    - newsoverview
>>    - _pagetemplateholder
>>            - threecolmn
>>            - twocolumn
>>            - ... etc
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I can use the cms console to copy the hst:page to a new one and rename it.
>>> But the hst config editor does not provide a copy option, so this is only
>>> feasible via the cms console.
>>>
>>> How hard is it to add the copy functionality to the config editor?
>>
>> Well, I hope we can phase out the config editor and move all features
>> to the templace composer enviroment. For example, I'd like to add menu
>> items directly in the site, not in the config editor.
>>
>> An extra functionality could thus be:
>>
>> 1) Copy a page template definition.
>> 2) Assume you call the new page def 'mynewpage' . Then, we need to be
>> able to create a url matcher that has as comp id : hst:pages/mynewpage
>>
>> Either way, really like your idea about page template definitions
>>
>> Regards Ard
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> --
>>> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>>> Minos Chatzidakis
>>>
>>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>>
>>> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>>> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>>> www.onehippo.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>
>> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>
> Regards,
>
> Arjé Cahn
>
> CTO, Hippo
> [hidden email] / [hidden email]
> twitter.com/#!/arjecahn
>
> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>
> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
> www.onehippo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
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Re: Copy hst:page in hst-config-editor

Minos Chatzidakis-2
Thanks all for your feedback.

I'm glad this is a nice idea, the customer I'm working for is really in need for it.

By the way, I think the main source of confusion with the naming is that the hst:templates are not actually templates.
What most people fail to see is that there are 2 template mechanisms in hst. One is the jsp templates (hst:templates) that work like a regular templating engine.
But then, the major templating functionality of hst is hst itself. It is a template driven site builder and the templates in this case can only the hst:pages. They act as templates because they are reused and they define the layout and the components that render content on the resulting (web)page. So when someone says 'I want a page similar to that', he's not talking about sitemap, nor hst:templates. It's only an hst:page that must be copied and changed to provide for that 'similar' page. An hst:page can be reused for any number of sitemap items (which effectively correspond to webpages). In other words, a page is a template whose elements (containers, content areas) are evaluated per sitemap item, ie per webpage. I think this is a definition of what a template is...

Thanks,
Minos





On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Arje Cahn <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Minos,
>
> Great idea. If it works from the console, then we'll add the controls to manipulate these things from within the Channel Manager (I'll add it to the roadmap).

One more note about it. To avoid a catch-22 I think the story should be:

-In the template composer, you should be able to add a new URL
pattern, like /agendaoverview/**
-Obviously,the ** matcher needs a 'componentconfigurationid' : You can
pick an existing component below hst:pages OR create a new hst:page by
picking from some 'pagetemplatedefinition's (This is the thing Minos
pointed out)

If you don't start with the new URL, then how to 'see' the newly
create hst:page from a definition?

Along with this functionality, it should also be straightforward to
change the pagedefinition for existing URL patterns

>
> About the naming: the term "hst:page" has historically been pretty confusing in itself. Beginning Hippo developers think that they refer to WEBpages, but they are not. Slapping another level of "template" on top of "page" (a template for an hst:page that, when instantiated, refers to an hst:template) sounds horribly confusing.

'pagedefinition' and 'pagetemplatedefinition' would most likely be a better name

Regards Ard

>
>
> On Jun 21, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Ard Schrijvers wrote:
>
>> Hello Minos,
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Minos Chatzidakis
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi to all,
>>>
>>> I have a number of hst:pages that I would like to use as prototypes for
>>> creating new hst:pages. The prototypes specify a number of container
>>> components, or a number of columns with containers (2-column page, 3-column
>>> page etc).
>>> So I would like to use these pages in order to create new ones. No component
>>> is dropped via the template composer in the prototype pages, nor are these
>>> pages used by the sitemap. The scenario is that when the content editor
>>> needs a 2-column page for example, he copies the 2-column prototype page,
>>> renames it, maps it to his sitemap item and then configures it by dropping
>>> components inside.
>>
>> I really like the idea! We should have some 'hst:page templates'
>> location. We could add this in hst:pages by some convention component,
>> for example:
>>
>> hst:pages
>>    - standard
>>    - homepage
>>    - newsoverview
>>    - _pagetemplateholder
>>            - threecolmn
>>            - twocolumn
>>            - ... etc
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I can use the cms console to copy the hst:page to a new one and rename it.
>>> But the hst config editor does not provide a copy option, so this is only
>>> feasible via the cms console.
>>>
>>> How hard is it to add the copy functionality to the config editor?
>>
>> Well, I hope we can phase out the config editor and move all features
>> to the templace composer enviroment. For example, I'd like to add menu
>> items directly in the site, not in the config editor.
>>
>> An extra functionality could thus be:
>>
>> 1) Copy a page template definition.
>> 2) Assume you call the new page def 'mynewpage' . Then, we need to be
>> able to create a url matcher that has as comp id : hst:pages/mynewpage
>>
>> Either way, really like your idea about page template definitions
>>
>> Regards Ard
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> --
>>> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>>> Minos Chatzidakis
>>>
>>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>>
>>> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>>> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
>>> www.onehippo.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>
>> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>
> Regards,
>
> Arjé Cahn
>
> CTO, Hippo
> [hidden email] / [hidden email]
> twitter.com/#!/arjecahn
>
> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>
> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
> www.onehippo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
Minos Chatzidakis

Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com


_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
Ard
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Re: Copy hst:page in hst-config-editor

Ard
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Minos Chatzidakis
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks all for your feedback.
>
> I'm glad this is a nice idea, the customer I'm working for is really in need
> for it.
>
> By the way, I think the main source of confusion with the naming is that the
> hst:templates are not actually templates.
> What most people fail to see is that there are 2 template mechanisms in hst.
> One is the jsp templates (hst:templates) that work like a regular templating
> engine.
> But then, the major templating functionality of hst is hst itself. It is a
> template driven site builder and the templates in this case can only the
> hst:pages. They act as templates because they are reused and they define the
> layout and the components that render content on the resulting (web)page. So
> when someone says 'I want a page similar to that', he's not talking about
> sitemap, nor hst:templates. It's only an hst:page that must be copied and
> changed to provide for that 'similar' page. An hst:page can be reused for
> any number of sitemap items (which effectively correspond to webpages). In
> other words, a page is a template whose elements (containers, content areas)
> are evaluated per sitemap item, ie per webpage. I think this is a definition
> of what a template is...

I don't think I agree a page is a template. A template is normally
used as some 'bootstrapping/protoype' kind of object. Normally, you do
not have instances of templates.

Wouldn't most confusion go away if we talk about 'pagedefinition's
*and* regarding your request of 'pages you can pick that are empty but
have some containers defined, like three column page', that are the
*real*  pages templates and in the line of definition would become
something like 'pagetemplatedefinition'

Note that RAVE will use page definitions (and I think portals also
used the term page definition)

Ard

>
> Thanks,
> Minos
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Arje Cahn <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Minos,
>> >
>> > Great idea. If it works from the console, then we'll add the controls to
>> > manipulate these things from within the Channel Manager (I'll add it to the
>> > roadmap).
>>
>> One more note about it. To avoid a catch-22 I think the story should be:
>>
>> -In the template composer, you should be able to add a new URL
>> pattern, like /agendaoverview/**
>> -Obviously,the ** matcher needs a 'componentconfigurationid' : You can
>> pick an existing component below hst:pages OR create a new hst:page by
>> picking from some 'pagetemplatedefinition's (This is the thing Minos
>> pointed out)
>>
>> If you don't start with the new URL, then how to 'see' the newly
>> create hst:page from a definition?
>>
>> Along with this functionality, it should also be straightforward to
>> change the pagedefinition for existing URL patterns
>>
>> >
>> > About the naming: the term "hst:page" has historically been pretty
>> > confusing in itself. Beginning Hippo developers think that they refer to
>> > WEBpages, but they are not. Slapping another level of "template" on top of
>> > "page" (a template for an hst:page that, when instantiated, refers to an
>> > hst:template) sounds horribly confusing.
>>
>> 'pagedefinition' and 'pagetemplatedefinition' would most likely be a
>> better name
>>
>> Regards Ard
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jun 21, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Ard Schrijvers wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello Minos,
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Minos Chatzidakis
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>> Hi to all,
>> >>>
>> >>> I have a number of hst:pages that I would like to use as prototypes
>> >>> for
>> >>> creating new hst:pages. The prototypes specify a number of container
>> >>> components, or a number of columns with containers (2-column page,
>> >>> 3-column
>> >>> page etc).
>> >>> So I would like to use these pages in order to create new ones. No
>> >>> component
>> >>> is dropped via the template composer in the prototype pages, nor are
>> >>> these
>> >>> pages used by the sitemap. The scenario is that when the content
>> >>> editor
>> >>> needs a 2-column page for example, he copies the 2-column prototype
>> >>> page,
>> >>> renames it, maps it to his sitemap item and then configures it by
>> >>> dropping
>> >>> components inside.
>> >>
>> >> I really like the idea! We should have some 'hst:page templates'
>> >> location. We could add this in hst:pages by some convention component,
>> >> for example:
>> >>
>> >> hst:pages
>> >>    - standard
>> >>    - homepage
>> >>    - newsoverview
>> >>    - _pagetemplateholder
>> >>            - threecolmn
>> >>            - twocolumn
>> >>            - ... etc
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> I can use the cms console to copy the hst:page to a new one and rename
>> >>> it.
>> >>> But the hst config editor does not provide a copy option, so this is
>> >>> only
>> >>> feasible via the cms console.
>> >>>
>> >>> How hard is it to add the copy functionality to the config editor?
>> >>
>> >> Well, I hope we can phase out the config editor and move all features
>> >> to the templace composer enviroment. For example, I'd like to add menu
>> >> items directly in the site, not in the config editor.
>> >>
>> >> An extra functionality could thus be:
>> >>
>> >> 1) Copy a page template definition.
>> >> 2) Assume you call the new page def 'mynewpage' . Then, we need to be
>> >> able to create a url matcher that has as comp id : hst:pages/mynewpage
>> >>
>> >> Either way, really like your idea about page template definitions
>> >>
>> >> Regards Ard
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>> --
>> >>> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> >>> Minos Chatzidakis
>> >>>
>> >>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >>>
>> >>> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >>> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> >>> www.onehippo.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >>
>> >> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> >> www.onehippo.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Arjé Cahn
>> >
>> > CTO, Hippo
>> > [hidden email] / [hidden email]
>> > twitter.com/#!/arjecahn
>> >
>> > Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> > Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >
>> > US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> > Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> > www.onehippo.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> > http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>
>> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>
>
>
>
> --
> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
> Minos Chatzidakis
>
> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>
> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
> www.onehippo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
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http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
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Re: Copy hst:page in hst-config-editor

Minos Chatzidakis-2
Personally I like the term 'page definition'. And it is exactly what I'm after here.
In my head 'page definition' and 'page template' are interchangeable terms.

Minos


On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Minos Chatzidakis
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks all for your feedback.
>
> I'm glad this is a nice idea, the customer I'm working for is really in need
> for it.
>
> By the way, I think the main source of confusion with the naming is that the
> hst:templates are not actually templates.
> What most people fail to see is that there are 2 template mechanisms in hst.
> One is the jsp templates (hst:templates) that work like a regular templating
> engine.
> But then, the major templating functionality of hst is hst itself. It is a
> template driven site builder and the templates in this case can only the
> hst:pages. They act as templates because they are reused and they define the
> layout and the components that render content on the resulting (web)page. So
> when someone says 'I want a page similar to that', he's not talking about
> sitemap, nor hst:templates. It's only an hst:page that must be copied and
> changed to provide for that 'similar' page. An hst:page can be reused for
> any number of sitemap items (which effectively correspond to webpages). In
> other words, a page is a template whose elements (containers, content areas)
> are evaluated per sitemap item, ie per webpage. I think this is a definition
> of what a template is...

I don't think I agree a page is a template. A template is normally
used as some 'bootstrapping/protoype' kind of object. Normally, you do
not have instances of templates.

Wouldn't most confusion go away if we talk about 'pagedefinition's
*and* regarding your request of 'pages you can pick that are empty but
have some containers defined, like three column page', that are the
*real*  pages templates and in the line of definition would become
something like 'pagetemplatedefinition'

Note that RAVE will use page definitions (and I think portals also
used the term page definition)

Ard

>
> Thanks,
> Minos
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Arje Cahn <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Minos,
>> >
>> > Great idea. If it works from the console, then we'll add the controls to
>> > manipulate these things from within the Channel Manager (I'll add it to the
>> > roadmap).
>>
>> One more note about it. To avoid a catch-22 I think the story should be:
>>
>> -In the template composer, you should be able to add a new URL
>> pattern, like /agendaoverview/**
>> -Obviously,the ** matcher needs a 'componentconfigurationid' : You can
>> pick an existing component below hst:pages OR create a new hst:page by
>> picking from some 'pagetemplatedefinition's (This is the thing Minos
>> pointed out)
>>
>> If you don't start with the new URL, then how to 'see' the newly
>> create hst:page from a definition?
>>
>> Along with this functionality, it should also be straightforward to
>> change the pagedefinition for existing URL patterns
>>
>> >
>> > About the naming: the term "hst:page" has historically been pretty
>> > confusing in itself. Beginning Hippo developers think that they refer to
>> > WEBpages, but they are not. Slapping another level of "template" on top of
>> > "page" (a template for an hst:page that, when instantiated, refers to an
>> > hst:template) sounds horribly confusing.
>>
>> 'pagedefinition' and 'pagetemplatedefinition' would most likely be a
>> better name
>>
>> Regards Ard
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jun 21, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Ard Schrijvers wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello Minos,
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Minos Chatzidakis
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>> Hi to all,
>> >>>
>> >>> I have a number of hst:pages that I would like to use as prototypes
>> >>> for
>> >>> creating new hst:pages. The prototypes specify a number of container
>> >>> components, or a number of columns with containers (2-column page,
>> >>> 3-column
>> >>> page etc).
>> >>> So I would like to use these pages in order to create new ones. No
>> >>> component
>> >>> is dropped via the template composer in the prototype pages, nor are
>> >>> these
>> >>> pages used by the sitemap. The scenario is that when the content
>> >>> editor
>> >>> needs a 2-column page for example, he copies the 2-column prototype
>> >>> page,
>> >>> renames it, maps it to his sitemap item and then configures it by
>> >>> dropping
>> >>> components inside.
>> >>
>> >> I really like the idea! We should have some 'hst:page templates'
>> >> location. We could add this in hst:pages by some convention component,
>> >> for example:
>> >>
>> >> hst:pages
>> >>    - standard
>> >>    - homepage
>> >>    - newsoverview
>> >>    - _pagetemplateholder
>> >>            - threecolmn
>> >>            - twocolumn
>> >>            - ... etc
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> I can use the cms console to copy the hst:page to a new one and rename
>> >>> it.
>> >>> But the hst config editor does not provide a copy option, so this is
>> >>> only
>> >>> feasible via the cms console.
>> >>>
>> >>> How hard is it to add the copy functionality to the config editor?
>> >>
>> >> Well, I hope we can phase out the config editor and move all features
>> >> to the templace composer enviroment. For example, I'd like to add menu
>> >> items directly in the site, not in the config editor.
>> >>
>> >> An extra functionality could thus be:
>> >>
>> >> 1) Copy a page template definition.
>> >> 2) Assume you call the new page def 'mynewpage' . Then, we need to be
>> >> able to create a url matcher that has as comp id : hst:pages/mynewpage
>> >>
>> >> Either way, really like your idea about page template definitions
>> >>
>> >> Regards Ard
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>> --
>> >>> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> >>> Minos Chatzidakis
>> >>>
>> >>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >>>
>> >>> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >>> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> >>> www.onehippo.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >>
>> >> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> >> www.onehippo.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Arjé Cahn
>> >
>> > CTO, Hippo
>> > [hidden email] / [hidden email]
>> > twitter.com/#!/arjecahn
>> >
>> > Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> > Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >
>> > US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> > Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> > www.onehippo.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> > http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>
>> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>
>
>
>
> --
> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
> Minos Chatzidakis
>
> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>
> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
> www.onehippo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
Minos Chatzidakis

Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com


_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
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Re: Copy hst:page in hst-config-editor

ec@hippo

On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Minos Chatzidakis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Personally I like the term 'page definition'. And it is exactly what I'm after here.
In my head 'page definition' and 'page template' are interchangeable terms.

Minos


On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Minos Chatzidakis
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks all for your feedback.
>
> I'm glad this is a nice idea, the customer I'm working for is really in need
> for it.
>
> By the way, I think the main source of confusion with the naming is that the
> hst:templates are not actually templates.
> What most people fail to see is that there are 2 template mechanisms in hst.
> One is the jsp templates (hst:templates) that work like a regular templating
> engine.
> But then, the major templating functionality of hst is hst itself. It is a
> template driven site builder and the templates in this case can only the
> hst:pages. They act as templates because they are reused and they define the
> layout and the components that render content on the resulting (web)page. So
> when someone says 'I want a page similar to that', he's not talking about
> sitemap, nor hst:templates. It's only an hst:page that must be copied and
> changed to provide for that 'similar' page. An hst:page can be reused for
> any number of sitemap items (which effectively correspond to webpages). In
> other words, a page is a template whose elements (containers, content areas)
> are evaluated per sitemap item, ie per webpage. I think this is a definition
> of what a template is...

I don't think I agree a page is a template. A template is normally
used as some 'bootstrapping/protoype' kind of object. Normally, you do
not have instances of templates.

Wouldn't most confusion go away if we talk about 'pagedefinition's
*and* regarding your request of 'pages you can pick that are empty but
have some containers defined, like three column page', that are the
*real*  pages templates and in the line of definition would become
something like 'pagetemplatedefinition'

Note that RAVE will use page definitions (and I think portals also
used the term page definition)

Ard

>
> Thanks,
> Minos
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Arje Cahn <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Minos,
>> >
>> > Great idea. If it works from the console, then we'll add the controls to
>> > manipulate these things from within the Channel Manager (I'll add it to the
>> > roadmap).
>>
>> One more note about it. To avoid a catch-22 I think the story should be:
>>
>> -In the template composer, you should be able to add a new URL
>> pattern, like /agendaoverview/**
>> -Obviously,the ** matcher needs a 'componentconfigurationid' : You can
>> pick an existing component below hst:pages OR create a new hst:page by
>> picking from some 'pagetemplatedefinition's (This is the thing Minos
>> pointed out)
>>
>> If you don't start with the new URL, then how to 'see' the newly
>> create hst:page from a definition?
>>
>> Along with this functionality, it should also be straightforward to
>> change the pagedefinition for existing URL patterns
>>
>> >
>> > About the naming: the term "hst:page" has historically been pretty
>> > confusing in itself. Beginning Hippo developers think that they refer to
>> > WEBpages, but they are not. Slapping another level of "template" on top of
>> > "page" (a template for an hst:page that, when instantiated, refers to an
>> > hst:template) sounds horribly confusing.
>>
>> 'pagedefinition' and 'pagetemplatedefinition' would most likely be a
>> better name
>>
>> Regards Ard
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jun 21, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Ard Schrijvers wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello Minos,
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Minos Chatzidakis
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>> Hi to all,
>> >>>
>> >>> I have a number of hst:pages that I would like to use as prototypes
>> >>> for
>> >>> creating new hst:pages. The prototypes specify a number of container
>> >>> components, or a number of columns with containers (2-column page,
>> >>> 3-column
>> >>> page etc).
>> >>> So I would like to use these pages in order to create new ones. No
>> >>> component
>> >>> is dropped via the template composer in the prototype pages, nor are
>> >>> these
>> >>> pages used by the sitemap. The scenario is that when the content
>> >>> editor
>> >>> needs a 2-column page for example, he copies the 2-column prototype
>> >>> page,
>> >>> renames it, maps it to his sitemap item and then configures it by
>> >>> dropping
>> >>> components inside.
>> >>
>> >> I really like the idea! We should have some 'hst:page templates'
>> >> location. We could add this in hst:pages by some convention component,
>> >> for example:
>> >>
>> >> hst:pages
>> >>    - standard
>> >>    - homepage
>> >>    - newsoverview
>> >>    - _pagetemplateholder
>> >>            - threecolmn
>> >>            - twocolumn
>> >>            - ... etc
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> I can use the cms console to copy the hst:page to a new one and rename
>> >>> it.
>> >>> But the hst config editor does not provide a copy option, so this is
>> >>> only
>> >>> feasible via the cms console.
>> >>>
>> >>> How hard is it to add the copy functionality to the config editor?
>> >>
>> >> Well, I hope we can phase out the config editor and move all features
>> >> to the templace composer enviroment. For example, I'd like to add menu
>> >> items directly in the site, not in the config editor.
>> >>
>> >> An extra functionality could thus be:
>> >>
>> >> 1) Copy a page template definition.
>> >> 2) Assume you call the new page def 'mynewpage' . Then, we need to be
>> >> able to create a url matcher that has as comp id : hst:pages/mynewpage
>> >>
>> >> Either way, really like your idea about page template definitions
>> >>
>> >> Regards Ard
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>> --
>> >>> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> >>> Minos Chatzidakis
>> >>>
>> >>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >>>
>> >>> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >>> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> >>> www.onehippo.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >>
>> >> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> >> www.onehippo.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Arjé Cahn
>> >
>> > CTO, Hippo
>> > [hidden email] / [hidden email]
>> > twitter.com/#!/arjecahn
>> >
>> > Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> > Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >
>> > US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> > Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> > www.onehippo.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> > http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>
>> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>
>
>
>
> --
> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
> Minos Chatzidakis
>
> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>
> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
> www.onehippo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
Minos Chatzidakis

Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com


_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
http://www.onehippo.com/

_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
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Re: Copy hst:page in hst-config-editor

Arje Cahn
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ard

On Jun 21, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Ard Schrijvers wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Minos Chatzidakis
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Thanks all for your feedback.
>
> I don't think I agree a page is a template. A template is normally
> used as some 'bootstrapping/protoype' kind of object. Normally, you do
> not have instances of templates.
>
> Wouldn't most confusion go away if we talk about 'pagedefinition's
> *and* regarding your request of 'pages you can pick that are empty but
> have some containers defined, like three column page', that are the
> *real*  pages templates and in the line of definition would become
> something like 'pagetemplatedefinition'
>
> Note that RAVE will use page definitions (and I think portals also
> used the term page definition)

Yes I find myself saying "page definition" more and more.. It kind of works.
"pagetemplatedefinition" sounds horrible, though... :-/
Isn't it a "page definition" template?

Arje
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html