Documentation

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
9 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Documentation

Adriaan Bloem
Changed the subject for clarity, but replying to Jeroen:

> True. We're working very hard on our docs! Please give us as much pointers
> as you like on what we are missing, so we can improve the docs. We also have
> someone dedicated to our documentation now, which will improve the amount
> and quality of docs a lot!

It would help a great deal if you would weed out the out-of-date pages
on the website, since sometimes the main page will have a reminder
that stuff is not up to speed, but not the following pages :) I.e.,
the main page of HST says HST2 is coming soon, but there's no further
mentions of that on the other pages (so if you jump right in,
following an external link, it's easy to be confused). Warnings about
that and/or links back to what *is* up to date would help a great deal
(and delete when they're obsolete).

Same thing about the sites: it's getting messy now with all the
different domains. I'm not quite sure how many there are and what the
differences are and have to read carefully each time: hippo.nl,
hippocms.org, onehippo.com, onehippo.org. Then there's also the jira
and maven sites etcetera. It's very easy to get lost, follow outdated
links, not know whether it's about v6 or v7, especially since v6 is
referred to as "the CMS" and v7 is usually referred to as "the new
repository".

With other open source systems, I'm quite used to see a .com (for
either the company behind it or the commercial hosted service) and a
.org (for the open source community), and that gets confusing enough;
add any more sites to it and newcomers will simply get lost ;)

And don't forget, less information is usually better than more
information. I'd rather have one page correctly saying that HST2
hasn't been released yet, than twenty pages describing it the wrong
way. And if it weren't for this list, I'd never have known that 2.04
was an unreleased alpha :)

Just my 2cts. And fyi, I get confused easily, so it might just be me :P

Cheers,
Adriaan M. Bloem
__

Analyst, CMS Watch
http://www.cmswatch.com/
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/community.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Documentation

quappser
Hi,

I fully agree, same experience...

All the best,

Oto

Op 13 mrt 2009, om 12:39 heeft Adriaan M. Bloem het volgende geschreven:

> Changed the subject for clarity, but replying to Jeroen:
>
>> True. We're working very hard on our docs! Please give us as much  
>> pointers
>> as you like on what we are missing, so we can improve the docs. We  
>> also have
>> someone dedicated to our documentation now, which will improve the  
>> amount
>> and quality of docs a lot!
>
> It would help a great deal if you would weed out the out-of-date pages
> on the website, since sometimes the main page will have a reminder
> that stuff is not up to speed, but not the following pages :) I.e.,
> the main page of HST says HST2 is coming soon, but there's no further
> mentions of that on the other pages (so if you jump right in,
> following an external link, it's easy to be confused). Warnings about
> that and/or links back to what *is* up to date would help a great deal
> (and delete when they're obsolete).
>
> Same thing about the sites: it's getting messy now with all the
> different domains. I'm not quite sure how many there are and what the
> differences are and have to read carefully each time: hippo.nl,
> hippocms.org, onehippo.com, onehippo.org. Then there's also the jira
> and maven sites etcetera. It's very easy to get lost, follow outdated
> links, not know whether it's about v6 or v7, especially since v6 is
> referred to as "the CMS" and v7 is usually referred to as "the new
> repository".
>
> With other open source systems, I'm quite used to see a .com (for
> either the company behind it or the commercial hosted service) and a
> .org (for the open source community), and that gets confusing enough;
> add any more sites to it and newcomers will simply get lost ;)
>
> And don't forget, less information is usually better than more
> information. I'd rather have one page correctly saying that HST2
> hasn't been released yet, than twenty pages describing it the wrong
> way. And if it weren't for this list, I'd never have known that 2.04
> was an unreleased alpha :)
>
> Just my 2cts. And fyi, I get confused easily, so it might just be  
> me :P
>
> Cheers,
> Adriaan M. Bloem
> __
>
> Analyst, CMS Watch
> http://www.cmswatch.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/community.html

_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/community.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Documentation

Tjeerd Brenninkmeijer
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by Adriaan Bloem
    It would help a great deal if you would weed out the out-of-date pages
    on the website, since sometimes the main page will have a reminder
    that stuff is not up to speed, but not the following pages :) I.e.,
    the main page of HST says HST2 is coming soon, but there's no further
    mentions of that on the other pages (so if you jump right in,
    following an external link, it's easy to be confused). Warnings about
    that and/or links back to what *is* up to date would help a great deal
    (and delete when they're obsolete).

Thanks Adriaan for your input. As we think documentation is crucial for a good open source project we will definitely work on your input.

    Same thing about the sites: it's getting messy now with all the
    different domains. I'm not quite sure how many there are and what the
    differences are and have to read carefully each time: hippo.nl,
    hippocms.org, onehippo.com, onehippo.org. Then there's also the jira
    and maven sites etcetera. It's very easy to get lost, follow outdated
    links, not know whether it's about v6 or v7, especially since v6 is
    referred to as "the CMS" and v7 is usually referred to as "the new
    repository".


    With other open source systems, I'm quite used to see a .com (for
    either the company behind it or the commercial hosted service) and a
    .org (for the open source community), and that gets confusing enough;
    add any more sites to it and newcomers will simply get lost ;)


I agree and we are now in the process of cleaning things up.

All previous products (Hippo CMS, Hippo portal, etc.) & their documentationsites had different (domain)names.
With the new version, we are bringing this back to 2 domainnames:

    * onehippo.com (company)
    * onehippo.org (community)

This week we moved Jira from issues.hippo.nl to issues.onehippo.com.

We will do the same with our company blog, Hippo portal, etc.

    And don't forget, less information is usually better than more
    information. I'd rather have one page correctly saying that HST2
    hasn't been released yet, than twenty pages describing it the wrong
    way. And if it weren't for this list, I'd never have known that 2.04
    was an unreleased alpha :)

We try to explain our release schedule & roadmap here:
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/about/roadmap.html
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/about/version_numbers.html

    Just my 2cts. And fyi, I get confused easily, so it might just be me :P

I don't think it's you ;-).
We are working hard to improve all aspects of our products and hope to get as much input as possible from the community (and learn from this). There is also a Wiki open to anyone that wants to share their experiences / best practices / ideas / etc with Hippo CMS 7:
http://wiki.onehippo.org/display/CMS7/Home

Kind regards

--
Tjeerd Brenninkmeijer

www.onehippo.com
Amsterdam  Hippo B.V.   Oosteinde 11   1017 WT   Amsterdam   +31(0)20-5224466
San Francisco  Hippo USA Inc.  101 H St., suite Q  Petaluma    CA 94952-5100   +1 (707) 773-4646
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Documentation

Gerrit Berkouwer
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by Adriaan Bloem
Fully agree also :-).

Will think about it to and come back with some thoughts later...


<quote author="Adriaan Bloem">
Changed the subject for clarity, but replying to Jeroen:

> True. We're working very hard on our docs! Please give us as much pointers
> as you like on what we are missing, so we can improve the docs. We also have
> someone dedicated to our documentation now, which will improve the amount
> and quality of docs a lot!

--
Greetz, Gerrit
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Documentation

Tjeerd Brenninkmeijer
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by Adriaan Bloem

    Same thing about the sites: it's getting messy now with all the
    different domains. I'm not quite sure how many there are and what the
    differences are and have to read carefully each time: hippo.nl,
    hippocms.org, onehippo.com, onehippo.org. Then there's also the jira
    and maven sites etcetera. It's very easy to get lost, follow outdated
    links, not know whether it's about v6 or v7, especially since v6 is
    referred to as "the CMS" and v7 is usually referred to as "the new
    repository".

    With other open source systems, I'm quite used to see a .com (for
    either the company behind it or the commercial hosted service) and a
    .org (for the open source community), and that gets confusing enough;
    add any more sites to it and newcomers will simply get lost ;)


Adriaan, could you help us cleaning up the URL's ;-)
http://www.cmswatch.com/CMS/Vendors/Hippo
redirect the URL www.hippocms.org to www.onehippo.org

Thanks

Tjeerd

--
www.onehippo.com
EUROPE • AMSTERDAM - Hippo B.V. Oosteinde 11 1017 WT Amsterdam +31(0)20-5224466
NORTH AMERICA • SAN FRANCISCO - Hippo USA Inc. 185 H Street, Suite B Petaluma CA 94952 +1 (877) 414-4776

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Documentation

Adriaan Bloem
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Tjeerd Brenninkmeijer
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Adriaan, could you help us cleaning up the URL's ;-)

No, that's *your* job. I don't work for Hippo :P

> http://www.cmswatch.com/CMS/Vendors/Hippo
> redirect the URL www.hippocms.org to www.onehippo.org

I'll pass it along to the webmaster ;)

Cheers,
Adriaan M. Bloem
__

Analyst, CMS Watch
http://www.cmswatch.com/
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/community.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Documentation

Gerrit Berkouwer
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by Gerrit Berkouwer
Okay, almost two weeks later, I promised to be back... :-)

To be honest: it's still a bit of a mess. Today I tried to navigate the website www.onehippo.org. This is really difficult guys... :-).

http://www.onehippo.com/ (200 pages?)

http://www.onehippo.org (2000 pages?)
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/ (almost same subject, but totally different navigation)
http://issues.onehippo.org/
http://forge.onehippo.org/
http://lastimages.forge.onehippo.org/
http://lists.onehippo.org/
http://wiki.onehippo.org/

http://www.hippocms.org/
http://planet.hippocms.org/
http://repository.hippocms.org/
http://svn.hippocms.org/

http://www.hippoportal.org/

http://www.hippo.nl/
http://blogs.hippo.nl/ (but 4 different blog-systems among the hippo-bloggers, why? Adds to the confusion...)
http://wiki.hippo.nl/

I get thrown between all sorts of subsites, pages, info, subpages, with a few different navigation-designs and sometimes pages with no or old content. That should not be necessary. I understand where you are coming from. But it really needs a change!

And to add to that: in Firefox 3 some subsites and pages are clearly broken... eg
http://planet.hippocms.org/ and
http://forge.onehippo.org/

Another advantage in consolidating all this stuff and all the (sub)domains into the two domains that Tjeerd mentions will be the findability in search-engines like Google.

Ok, my 2cents.  
--
Greetz, Gerrit
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Documentation

Arje Cahn
Administrator
Gerrit - I'm listening ! The website(s) will see some big improvements
over the coming weeks.

Arje

> To be honest: it's still a bit of a mess. Today I tried to navigate the website www.onehippo.org. This is really difficult guys... :-).
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/community.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Documentation

Gerrit Berkouwer
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
Arje, I have no doubt, thanks. :-)

Gerrit

Arje Cahn wrote
Gerrit - I'm listening ! The website(s) will see some big improvements
over the coming weeks.

Arje

> To be honest: it's still a bit of a mess. Today I tried to navigate the website www.onehippo.org. This is really difficult guys... :-).
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/community.html
--
Greetz, Gerrit