node name of a document is indexed

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node name of a document is indexed

Bert Leunis
Hi All,

Suppose I have a document in the cms that has "test-document" as node name, but as title something completely different, for example "Hippo Mailinglist". When you search with the term "document"  that document turns up as a result. This is unexpected an confusing because in the document itself the term is not found.

In my specific case the results are only shown on a overview, and the documents cannot be seen under their own url. So in the site the "/test-document" will never be found. Can I exclude the node name from being indexed? Is it possible to influence the indexing on document type? So: only for document X do not index the node name?

We are on version 7.7.7.

With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
Bert Leunis

Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com


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Ard
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Re: node name of a document is indexed

Ard
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Suppose I have a document in the cms that has "test-document" as node name,
> but as title something completely different, for example "Hippo
> Mailinglist". When you search with the term "document"  that document turns
> up as a result. This is unexpected an confusing because in the document
> itself the term is not found.
>
> In my specific case the results are only shown on a overview, and the
> documents cannot be seen under their own url. So in the site the
> "/test-document" will never be found. Can I exclude the node name from being
> indexed? Is it possible to influence the indexing on document type? So: only
> for document X do not index the node name?

No unfortunately you cannot tune this. As a matter of fact we
explicitly index the node name as it seems so natural to include in
the free text search. Namely I can turn your argument around :

'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of the
document name' : That is strange...

I actually think this argument is more valid than yours, but, ideally,
it would be configurable. Currently it is not configurable. If really
needed you can make an issue for it

Regards Ard



>
> We are on version 7.7.7.
>
> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
> Bert Leunis
>
> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>
> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
> www.onehippo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
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http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
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Re: node name of a document is indexed

Bert Leunis
'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of the
> document name' : That is strange...

It is actually not the document name but the url that the document is exposed with.

I can see your point, but if you search for a term, get 4 results and on 3 of the results the term can be found on the page or in its attachment, and for number 4 it is actually the url that contains the term... It may take the user some time to realise why this particular page showed up as a result.

If really needed you can make an issue for it
I'll think about it!

With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
Bert Leunis

Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com



On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]> wrote:
'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of the
document name' : That is strange...


_______________________________________________
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http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
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Re: node name of a document is indexed

Ard
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of the
>> document name' : That is strange...
>
> It is actually not the document name but the url that the document is
> exposed with.
>
> I can see your point, but if you search for a term, get 4 results and on 3
> of the results the term can be found on the page or in its attachment, and
> for number 4 it is actually the url that contains the term... It may take
> the user some time to realise why this particular page showed up as a
> result.

well personally I don't really see this as a problem. It is only the
'last segment' of the url, so not ancestor node names.

So, if I search for 'myhippo' and I find a document at /myhippo.html
that does not contain the word myhippo I am not surprised.

Is there actually a customer complaining about this?

Regards Ard

>
>> If really needed you can make an issue for it
> I'll think about it!
>
> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
> Bert Leunis
>
> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>
> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
> www.onehippo.com
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of the
>> document name' : That is strange...
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
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Re: node name of a document is indexed

Bert Leunis
> Is there actually a customer complaining about this?
A customer noticed this. And since the document is only available on a overview, and does not have its own url, I can see why they complain about this unexplainable result. "The search is not working" is what they say.

With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
Bert Leunis

Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com



On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of the
>> document name' : That is strange...
>
> It is actually not the document name but the url that the document is
> exposed with.
>
> I can see your point, but if you search for a term, get 4 results and on 3
> of the results the term can be found on the page or in its attachment, and
> for number 4 it is actually the url that contains the term... It may take
> the user some time to realise why this particular page showed up as a
> result.

well personally I don't really see this as a problem. It is only the
'last segment' of the url, so not ancestor node names.

So, if I search for 'myhippo' and I find a document at /myhippo.html
that does not contain the word myhippo I am not surprised.

Is there actually a customer complaining about this?

Regards Ard

>
>> If really needed you can make an issue for it
> I'll think about it!
>
> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
> Bert Leunis
>
> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>
> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
> www.onehippo.com
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of the
>> document name' : That is strange...
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html


_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
Ard
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Re: node name of a document is indexed

Ard
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Is there actually a customer complaining about this?
> A customer noticed this. And since the document is only available on a
> overview, and does not have its own url, I can see why they complain about
> this unexplainable result. "The search is not working" is what they say.

Ok. Well, I tend to disagree with them :)

Google also sometimes gives hits on text you don't actually see on the
website. I really think the node name is a part of the document.

Perhaps you can try to convince them

Regards Ard

>
> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
> Bert Leunis
>
> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>
> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
> www.onehippo.com
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of the
>> >> document name' : That is strange...
>> >
>> > It is actually not the document name but the url that the document is
>> > exposed with.
>> >
>> > I can see your point, but if you search for a term, get 4 results and on
>> > 3
>> > of the results the term can be found on the page or in its attachment,
>> > and
>> > for number 4 it is actually the url that contains the term... It may
>> > take
>> > the user some time to realise why this particular page showed up as a
>> > result.
>>
>> well personally I don't really see this as a problem. It is only the
>> 'last segment' of the url, so not ancestor node names.
>>
>> So, if I search for 'myhippo' and I find a document at /myhippo.html
>> that does not contain the word myhippo I am not surprised.
>>
>> Is there actually a customer complaining about this?
>>
>> Regards Ard
>>
>> >
>> >> If really needed you can make an issue for it
>> > I'll think about it!
>> >
>> > With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> > Bert Leunis
>> >
>> > Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> > Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >
>> > US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> > Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> > www.onehippo.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Ard Schrijvers
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of the
>> >> document name' : That is strange...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> > http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>
>> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
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Re: node name of a document is indexed

Jasper Floor
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Is there actually a customer complaining about this?
> A customer noticed this. And since the document is only available on a
> overview, and does not have its own url, I can see why they complain about
> this unexplainable result. "The search is not working" is what they say.

Ok. Well, I tend to disagree with them :)

Google also sometimes gives hits on text you don't actually see on the
website. I really think the node name is a part of the document.

That's a very developercentric view however. Look at it from the users perspective. If they never see the name then it doesn't exist for them. Therefore the search results are incorrect from their POV. When Google indexes documents on text you can't see then they are attempting to incorporate some meta data which makes the result more relevant. Relevance is however  perception (well, in some sense it is a defined function but not as far as the user is concerned). Also the google case is a much more complex one so may not be entirely a fair comparison. Sure, for some customers it may be valid that the node name is important (meta)data but for others it doesn't even exist.

mvg,
Jasper
 

>
> With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
> Bert Leunis
>
> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>
> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
> www.onehippo.com
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of the
>> >> document name' : That is strange...
>> >
>> > It is actually not the document name but the url that the document is
>> > exposed with.
>> >
>> > I can see your point, but if you search for a term, get 4 results and on
>> > 3
>> > of the results the term can be found on the page or in its attachment,
>> > and
>> > for number 4 it is actually the url that contains the term... It may
>> > take
>> > the user some time to realise why this particular page showed up as a
>> > result.
>>
>> well personally I don't really see this as a problem. It is only the
>> 'last segment' of the url, so not ancestor node names.
>>
>> So, if I search for 'myhippo' and I find a document at /myhippo.html
>> that does not contain the word myhippo I am not surprised.
>>
>> Is there actually a customer complaining about this?
>>
>> Regards Ard
>>
>> >
>> >> If really needed you can make an issue for it
>> > I'll think about it!
>> >
>> > With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> > Bert Leunis
>> >
>> > Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> > Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >
>> > US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> > Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> > www.onehippo.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Ard Schrijvers
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of the
>> >> document name' : That is strange...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> > http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>
>> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html


_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
Ard
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Re: node name of a document is indexed

Ard
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Jasper Floor <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >> Is there actually a customer complaining about this?
>> > A customer noticed this. And since the document is only available on a
>> > overview, and does not have its own url, I can see why they complain
>> > about
>> > this unexplainable result. "The search is not working" is what they say.
>>
>> Ok. Well, I tend to disagree with them :)
>>
>> Google also sometimes gives hits on text you don't actually see on the
>> website. I really think the node name is a part of the document.
>
>
> That's a very developercentric view however. Look at it from the users
> perspective. If they never see the name then it doesn't exist for them.
> Therefore the search results are incorrect from their POV. When Google
> indexes documents on text you can't see then they are attempting to
> incorporate some meta data which makes the result more relevant. Relevance
> is however  perception (well, in some sense it is a defined function but not
> as far as the user is concerned). Also the google case is a much more
> complex one so may not be entirely a fair comparison. Sure, for some
> customers it may be valid that the node name is important (meta)data but for
> others it doesn't even exist.

Yes, that is why I started this thread with the first reply that I
could easily revert the original statement from Bert (thus both
scenarios can be supported). You are now restating the obvious imo. If
there is a customer that thinks it is important enough that the node
name should not be indexed in their case, a repository improvement
(not bug imo) can be filed

Regards Ard

>
> mvg,
> Jasper
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> > Bert Leunis
>> >
>> > Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> > Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >
>> > US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> > Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> > www.onehippo.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Ard Schrijvers
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> document name' : That is strange...
>> >> >
>> >> > It is actually not the document name but the url that the document is
>> >> > exposed with.
>> >> >
>> >> > I can see your point, but if you search for a term, get 4 results and
>> >> > on
>> >> > 3
>> >> > of the results the term can be found on the page or in its
>> >> > attachment,
>> >> > and
>> >> > for number 4 it is actually the url that contains the term... It may
>> >> > take
>> >> > the user some time to realise why this particular page showed up as a
>> >> > result.
>> >>
>> >> well personally I don't really see this as a problem. It is only the
>> >> 'last segment' of the url, so not ancestor node names.
>> >>
>> >> So, if I search for 'myhippo' and I find a document at /myhippo.html
>> >> that does not contain the word myhippo I am not surprised.
>> >>
>> >> Is there actually a customer complaining about this?
>> >>
>> >> Regards Ard
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> If really needed you can make an issue for it
>> >> > I'll think about it!
>> >> >
>> >> > With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> >> > Bert Leunis
>> >> >
>> >> > Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >> > Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >> >
>> >> > US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >> > Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> >> > www.onehippo.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Ard Schrijvers
>> >> > <[hidden email]>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> document name' : That is strange...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >> > http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >>
>> >> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> >> www.onehippo.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> > http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>
>> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
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Re: node name of a document is indexed

Bert Leunis
Thanks for all this info. I filed the request (yes, as improvement!) as https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/REPO-595.

With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
Bert Leunis

Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com


On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Jasper Floor <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >> Is there actually a customer complaining about this?
>> > A customer noticed this. And since the document is only available on a
>> > overview, and does not have its own url, I can see why they complain
>> > about
>> > this unexplainable result. "The search is not working" is what they say.
>>
>> Ok. Well, I tend to disagree with them :)
>>
>> Google also sometimes gives hits on text you don't actually see on the
>> website. I really think the node name is a part of the document.
>
>
> That's a very developercentric view however. Look at it from the users
> perspective. If they never see the name then it doesn't exist for them.
> Therefore the search results are incorrect from their POV. When Google
> indexes documents on text you can't see then they are attempting to
> incorporate some meta data which makes the result more relevant. Relevance
> is however  perception (well, in some sense it is a defined function but not
> as far as the user is concerned). Also the google case is a much more
> complex one so may not be entirely a fair comparison. Sure, for some
> customers it may be valid that the node name is important (meta)data but for
> others it doesn't even exist.

Yes, that is why I started this thread with the first reply that I
could easily revert the original statement from Bert (thus both
scenarios can be supported). You are now restating the obvious imo. If
there is a customer that thinks it is important enough that the node
name should not be indexed in their case, a repository improvement
(not bug imo) can be filed

Regards Ard

>
> mvg,
> Jasper
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> > Bert Leunis
>> >
>> > Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> > Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >
>> > US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> > Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> > www.onehippo.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Ard Schrijvers
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> document name' : That is strange...
>> >> >
>> >> > It is actually not the document name but the url that the document is
>> >> > exposed with.
>> >> >
>> >> > I can see your point, but if you search for a term, get 4 results and
>> >> > on
>> >> > 3
>> >> > of the results the term can be found on the page or in its
>> >> > attachment,
>> >> > and
>> >> > for number 4 it is actually the url that contains the term... It may
>> >> > take
>> >> > the user some time to realise why this particular page showed up as a
>> >> > result.
>> >>
>> >> well personally I don't really see this as a problem. It is only the
>> >> 'last segment' of the url, so not ancestor node names.
>> >>
>> >> So, if I search for 'myhippo' and I find a document at /myhippo.html
>> >> that does not contain the word myhippo I am not surprised.
>> >>
>> >> Is there actually a customer complaining about this?
>> >>
>> >> Regards Ard
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> If really needed you can make an issue for it
>> >> > I'll think about it!
>> >> >
>> >> > With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> >> > Bert Leunis
>> >> >
>> >> > Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >> > Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >> >
>> >> > US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >> > Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> >> > www.onehippo.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Ard Schrijvers
>> >> > <[hidden email]>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> document name' : That is strange...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >> > http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >>
>> >> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> >> www.onehippo.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> > http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>
>> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466">+31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html


_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: node name of a document is indexed

Arthur Bogaart
Maybe we should display the url-name in the document as well, as a metadata property? That would really make it 'part of the document'.

Regards,
Arthur Bogaart
 
Thanks for all this info. I filed the request (yes, as improvement!) as https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/REPO-595.

With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
Bert Leunis

Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com


On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Jasper Floor <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >> Is there actually a customer complaining about this?
>> > A customer noticed this. And since the document is only available on a
>> > overview, and does not have its own url, I can see why they complain
>> > about
>> > this unexplainable result. "The search is not working" is what they say.
>>
>> Ok. Well, I tend to disagree with them :)
>>
>> Google also sometimes gives hits on text you don't actually see on the
>> website. I really think the node name is a part of the document.
>
>
> That's a very developercentric view however. Look at it from the users
> perspective. If they never see the name then it doesn't exist for them.
> Therefore the search results are incorrect from their POV. When Google
> indexes documents on text you can't see then they are attempting to
> incorporate some meta data which makes the result more relevant. Relevance
> is however  perception (well, in some sense it is a defined function but not
> as far as the user is concerned). Also the google case is a much more
> complex one so may not be entirely a fair comparison. Sure, for some
> customers it may be valid that the node name is important (meta)data but for
> others it doesn't even exist.

Yes, that is why I started this thread with the first reply that I
could easily revert the original statement from Bert (thus both
scenarios can be supported). You are now restating the obvious imo. If
there is a customer that thinks it is important enough that the node
name should not be indexed in their case, a repository improvement
(not bug imo) can be filed

Regards Ard

>
> mvg,
> Jasper
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> > Bert Leunis
>> >
>> > Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> > Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >
>> > US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> > Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> > www.onehippo.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Ard Schrijvers
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> document name' : That is strange...
>> >> >
>> >> > It is actually not the document name but the url that the document is
>> >> > exposed with.
>> >> >
>> >> > I can see your point, but if you search for a term, get 4 results and
>> >> > on
>> >> > 3
>> >> > of the results the term can be found on the page or in its
>> >> > attachment,
>> >> > and
>> >> > for number 4 it is actually the url that contains the term... It may
>> >> > take
>> >> > the user some time to realise why this particular page showed up as a
>> >> > result.
>> >>
>> >> well personally I don't really see this as a problem. It is only the
>> >> 'last segment' of the url, so not ancestor node names.
>> >>
>> >> So, if I search for 'myhippo' and I find a document at /myhippo.html
>> >> that does not contain the word myhippo I am not surprised.
>> >>
>> >> Is there actually a customer complaining about this?
>> >>
>> >> Regards Ard
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> If really needed you can make an issue for it
>> >> > I'll think about it!
>> >> >
>> >> > With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> >> > Bert Leunis
>> >> >
>> >> > Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >> > Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >> >
>> >> > US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >> > Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> >> > www.onehippo.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Ard Schrijvers
>> >> > <[hidden email]>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> document name' : That is strange...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >> > http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >>
>> >> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> >> www.onehippo.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> > http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>
>> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html


_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Kind regards,
Met vriendelijke groet,

Arthur Bogaart

Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com

_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: node name of a document is indexed

Bert Leunis
Depends completely on the required functionality in the project I guess.

With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
Bert Leunis

Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Arthur Bogaart <[hidden email]> wrote:
Maybe we should display the url-name in the document as well, as a metadata property? That would really make it 'part of the document'.

Regards,
Arthur Bogaart
 
Thanks for all this info. I filed the request (yes, as improvement!) as https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/REPO-595.

With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
Bert Leunis

Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com


On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Jasper Floor <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Ard Schrijvers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >> Is there actually a customer complaining about this?
>> > A customer noticed this. And since the document is only available on a
>> > overview, and does not have its own url, I can see why they complain
>> > about
>> > this unexplainable result. "The search is not working" is what they say.
>>
>> Ok. Well, I tend to disagree with them :)
>>
>> Google also sometimes gives hits on text you don't actually see on the
>> website. I really think the node name is a part of the document.
>
>
> That's a very developercentric view however. Look at it from the users
> perspective. If they never see the name then it doesn't exist for them.
> Therefore the search results are incorrect from their POV. When Google
> indexes documents on text you can't see then they are attempting to
> incorporate some meta data which makes the result more relevant. Relevance
> is however  perception (well, in some sense it is a defined function but not
> as far as the user is concerned). Also the google case is a much more
> complex one so may not be entirely a fair comparison. Sure, for some
> customers it may be valid that the node name is important (meta)data but for
> others it doesn't even exist.

Yes, that is why I started this thread with the first reply that I
could easily revert the original statement from Bert (thus both
scenarios can be supported). You are now restating the obvious imo. If
there is a customer that thinks it is important enough that the node
name should not be indexed in their case, a repository improvement
(not bug imo) can be filed

Regards Ard

>
> mvg,
> Jasper
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> > Bert Leunis
>> >
>> > Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> > Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >
>> > US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> > Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> > www.onehippo.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Ard Schrijvers
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Bert Leunis <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> document name' : That is strange...
>> >> >
>> >> > It is actually not the document name but the url that the document is
>> >> > exposed with.
>> >> >
>> >> > I can see your point, but if you search for a term, get 4 results and
>> >> > on
>> >> > 3
>> >> > of the results the term can be found on the page or in its
>> >> > attachment,
>> >> > and
>> >> > for number 4 it is actually the url that contains the term... It may
>> >> > take
>> >> > the user some time to realise why this particular page showed up as a
>> >> > result.
>> >>
>> >> well personally I don't really see this as a problem. It is only the
>> >> 'last segment' of the url, so not ancestor node names.
>> >>
>> >> So, if I search for 'myhippo' and I find a document at /myhippo.html
>> >> that does not contain the word myhippo I am not surprised.
>> >>
>> >> Is there actually a customer complaining about this?
>> >>
>> >> Regards Ard
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> If really needed you can make an issue for it
>> >> > I'll think about it!
>> >> >
>> >> > With kind regards/Met vriendelijke groet,
>> >> > Bert Leunis
>> >> >
>> >> > Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >> > Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >> >
>> >> > US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >> > Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> >> > www.onehippo.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Ard Schrijvers
>> >> > <[hidden email]>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 'I don't find a document when I search for a term that is part of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> document name' : That is strange...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >> > http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> >> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>> >>
>> >> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> >> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> >> www.onehippo.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> >> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> > http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
>> Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142
>>
>> US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
>> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
> http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US <a href="tel:%2B1%20877%20414%204776" value="+18774144776" target="_blank">+1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe <a href="tel:%2B31%280%2920%20522%204466" value="+31205224466" target="_blank">+31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html


_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html



--
Kind regards,
Met vriendelijke groet,

Arthur Bogaart


Amsterdam - Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam
Boston - 1 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02142

US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com

_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html


_______________________________________________
Hippo-cms7-user mailing list and forums
http://www.onehippo.org/cms7/support/forums.html